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Casey Anthony’s murder trial and what I have come to believe an obvious need she has for the 'attention spotlight' to be on her, only her, will not consume me. Thank God for the mute button on televisions and videos, and the ability to drop view to the toolbar on computers! Although I will give some of my listening attention to the testimony in the trial, I will not miss all my favorite Zeus radio shows or ignore my blog or favorite internet sites. I will pay attention to other people who have crimes committed against them; those people are ones whose voice deserves hearing. Casey Anthony and her need will not define my internet life. My internet life is not about her. When the medical examiner and forensic experts testify, I will un mute my view of the trial to hear the 'testimony of truth'. My internet life is about truth and not Casey’s apparent mendacious tales, but I will listen to Levi Page’s evening radio shows for updates on the witnesses testimony. I will however, if an end ever comes, watch the juror’s verdict and gladly focus my total attention to Justice for Caylee. Caylee is the only one who deserves my time and attention!
The Casey Anthony saga has never been about Caylee. I hope the prosecutors have a large picture of her where the jurors and all media covering the trial can see it constantly so she won't be forgotten in the trial.
ReplyDeleteI take the pledge! I will only listen or read that which stays on point and treats the justice for Caylee with heart and without sensationalism!
ReplyDeleteYes! Ignore the obstructers and listen and read only what is right for Caylee's justice!
ReplyDeleteI agree with the 'that which stays on point' Delilah. Sadly this case will become sensationalism unless the Judge can put a stop to it very early. If they complete it in 6 to 8 weeks as they say it will last, I definitely give the judge a thumbs up!
ReplyDeleteI listened to the first few hours of jury selection today but signed out when time for Zeus radio shows and never signed back in with an internet link, nor did I tune in on TV. I will listen to the OS next week just so I can hear an outline of what each side intends to show jurors, if they don't go on for hours. I am hoping Judge Perry is insistent trial start on time daily so jury time won't be wasted. Mute is my new best friend!
Speaking of sensationalism. Today Judge Perry had to dismiss all the potential jurors they'd gone through in the hardship part due to them discussing the case in the jury room. According to a woman interviewed by wftv most of the waiting potentials said they believed Casey was guilty and wanted out the juror pool. Only a couple had said they'd never heard of her.
ReplyDeleteI know there are others out there who haven't heard of Casey because they don't read papers or watch tv but I doubt if they'll luck out and have them as ones who are called.
This could take a while.
I've actually watched very little of the vior dire in this case. I turned my tv to IS and listened to some of it but haven't utilized an internet link much. I have today and still find I feel the potential jurors are on trial themselves. So many personal questions asked - nothing like any juror duty summons I've gotten in my life.
ReplyDeleteYou can hear the nervousness in the potential jurors voices. Not that any have deliberately lied but that they're afraid to tell all. If they so much as saw a headline connected to the case in the past or more recent, it seems to me in some instance they are questioned as bias against Casey. Which to me is ridiculous. Not everyone watches news all the time, not everyone kept up with all the media in this case. Some people barely listen to TV except local news or weather. My daughter seldom watches any TV and stays away from what she calls dark news and shows. She watches HGTV and Nascar mostly. Local news if weather is worrisome.
The jury selection is over and the actual trial starts Tuesday, May 24, 2011 in Orange Co., FL. Of course the day didn't go without its woes for the judge since a woman with mental issues yelled out 'she murdered someone anyway' while a potential juror was being questioned. That yell gave the woman an up front and center closer view of the judge a few minutes later. She was sentenced to 2 days stay in the local jail at taxpayers funding.
ReplyDeleteThat wasn't all his woes, the female potential witness who was being put through voir dire when the mental person yelled, was brought back in. She advised while she was standing out in hallway a man dressed in a suit said he was a cop and had started a conversation with her. The judge didn't ask questions about the alleged cop or what the conversation was about, he just dismissed her. Nothing more was said about that potential juror. The Judge was angry.
I listened to the state's OS with baited breath and found it to be very good. I have to say Linda Drane Burdick's first hour was without passion or stress emphasis on details of the 30 days of Caylee's allegedly being missing. No passion or not, she walked the jurors through the days in image building details while showing a photo arrangement of Caylee and Casey. However, her last 30 to 45 minutes was very good with powerful emphasis on important parts of State's theory of how Caylee died and who caused her death.
ReplyDeleteI thought it phenomenal and incredibly powerful when Ms Burdick said the last known picture of Caylee alive was taken by Cindy Anthony; then talked about what Caylee was doing on that day and going straight to the skull being found after that. I understand the pics were shown to jurors on screen as she mentioned them. That would make her talking about the last picture of Caylee alive and skull being found even more powerful.
Defense OS was powerful from the start to the closing. They did make some good theories on state's case of how Casey did not kill Caylee nor did she place her body at the dump scene site.
Defense doesn't have to prove anything but does have to show reasonable doubt via testimony of witnesses to sustain their theory. From what I gather, they say Caylee was with George Anthony on 16th. and she drowned. Her death was an accident. And even hinted that George abused Casey and due to that abuse Casey goes into denial mode after anything traumatic happens to her. For a while I was wondering if he was hinting that George or Lee were Caylee's father. Couldn't quite ascertain if he was saying that's a possibility.
I am also wondering if defense is going to attempt showing Kronk hid Caylee's body since they talked so negatively about his finding her body and his wanting the reward. If so, they will have to somehow show George and Kronk knew each other, or communicated with each other.
What I am not wondering anymore is whether or not Baez can be a credible defense criminal lawyer. I think he showed in his OS he has passion for this case and can be a criminal attorney.
I didn't listen to much of live testimony today since I had other things to listen to and take care of. So, I listened to the vids of testimony tonight. Found it most interesting. I do admit Anthony Lazzaro and Casey would have made a good pair, to me he came across as arrogant and she is too. All of her friends seemed to want to be anywhere but there (can't say as I blame them). Their testimony wasn't anything astoundingly wham though. We already knew about them and that Casey was with them during the 30 days. But, also, it appeared to me, they didn't really want to be negative about her. Anthony did walk around the bush in his answers a few times. He came across, to me, to be a person who is all about 'him'. I did find it interesting her friend didn't smell anything unusual in her car when near it though. So I'm still trying to figure that out.
ReplyDeleteJust a 'What If':
If any juror fell for Baez OS then all these questions by Pros about 'did casey ever mention Caylee was missing' And things like, 'did she ever mention she'd been kidnapped?' 'Did she ever ask for help to find her?' And too, showing pictures of her going out to party then it could be playing into defense theory that George allowed Caylee to drown. They may think, why would she ask them to help her if George told her to go act normal? She was doing what he told her to do. Dad was taking care of it- dad was taking care of the car. The mentioning of venting or arguing was with her mother. She never mentioned she was venting with her dad... it was always mom. And she would go outside to talk to take her calls or make her calls.
I think it's time I quit thinking for tonight.
Day 14 but Day 3 of witnesses.....
ReplyDeleteI was very tired last night so I didn't go into details of what was heard and my feelings on it. Today I had to again listen to tapes after the fact due to other things I preferred to watch and listen to and other things I needed to do. So, after I hear the witnesses for today, Thursday the 26th. I will try and give a little of my opinion, and stay away from what if's and devil's advocate stuff. ( I hope so anyway- they sure are popping up as I hear the testimony)
Little more on Casey and Caylee from Tony Lazzaro:
He said Caylee was an amazing little girl, that Caylee would hug her mom, they'd swim together, read books and watch 'Dora The Explorer' & from the show Caylee learned to count to 40 in Spanish. Casey was smiling and nodding with all this. She got teary-eyed. (All that could go in Casey's favor if a juror or more of them feel she was acting like a good mother-)
Baez kept wanting to put the idea in the juror's minds that Casey told him she was abused by her father. By asking about a secret she told him. He, Baez, used the word bizarre. Judge put a stop to that line of questioning. Sad thing is, it's in jurors minds now because Tony said she told him a secret - (It'd be hearsay for him to say what the secret was since only he and Casey were there.)
Pros brought out gas can stuff and he asked if cans had duct tape on them and Tony said I can't
remember. Pros asked, if they may have. And Tony said, correct. Great point! He brought out the trunk of car again and Tony said again he could see the rubber lining of the car.
George's testimony got to me today. He went through the shed door being broken on June 24 and shed was opened a couple inches. He said he looked over and the lock itself was inside the shed. And both gas cans were missing. No power tools or anything else was missing. He decided to make a report, because gas had been stolen from vehicles in the area so he thought he should. He said a deputy came and took the report. And he alerted his neighbor about the gas cans full of gas being missing. He said Casey came in later that afternoon from the garage entrance. He said he was happy to see her but she was somewhat surprised. he said Casey said she had about 10 minutes just needed clothes to go to work... and was evasive when he asked about Caylee and where she was. He asked her if she had gotten to gas cans... and she said, 'Well dad I don't know what to tell you.' He said when he told Casey he needed to get something out her car, she rushed passed him and opened her car door and took out the gas cans and told him here's your *bleeping* ( that's nicer word than she used) gas cans... He said was annoyed but not to argue and get upset or get her upset before she went to work he just sat them on a little freezer in the garage... He also said when Casey brought the gas cans back the cap on the metal can was gone so he placed a piece of duck tape on it to cover the cap hole.
Day 14 but Day 3 of witnesses....
ReplyDeleteWhen Baez questioned George, he, according to George, was trying to confuse him. He was particular how he answered questions and asked for question clarification before doing so several times. When it came to the gas can pictures, he told Baez that the picture he was showing wasn't the same picture he was shown before, the one before had a longer piece of tape on it. And also he brought out that when Casey gave him the cans they had no duct tape on them. He also got him to say, he didn't smell decomp in back of car on June 24, when she gave him the cans. I can't
say I blame George for laughing with the lawn mowing stuff, I laughed too. Good Lord, the jury would know he'd mow his lawn between June 24 and August 1.
Much ado was made about duct tape on gas can and George kept telling Baez that the picture he was being shown was not the same picture he was shown in deposition with him on Aug 5 2009.
Judge finally sent jurors out and very smartly told Baez what would and wouldn't be discussed with jurors present unless it was in evidence. Go Judge Perry!
All in all, I think George stood up well against Baez. And was good for state.
At first, Ricardo Morales testimony was with same questions about if casey asked to help find her child, did she mention caylee was missing etc when he saw her on July 15 at the airrport. I suppose if jurors see state's case as liable as the case moves forward all these questions will become an important event in the days before Caylee was reported missing.
But, what’s interesting is that he sold pictures to ‘The Globe’ in 2008 after July 16, 2008 and made about 4 thousand for them. One picture, taken in Jan 2008, was one of Casey and Caylee with Caylee having a bruise under her eye. A stipulation was made between parties that the bruise was not in any way the cause of abuse or neglect. But selling the pictures makes this witness look not so good morally. He made money off little Caylee's being missing.
What really got me was his my space photo of a man and woman at dinner and the heading was 'Win her With Chloroform.' He posted that around the time he and Casey were dating. That defense brought the picture in is something I don't understand. his defense is that Caylee drowned so why show evidence of her boyfriend posting a pic like that while they were dating.
Baez did have Ricardo say he had never mentioned the picture to Casey or mentioned chloroform. Chloroform is a part of state's case. Since he is blaming George and intimating Kronk hid body, why make this witness look guilty like he was part of the chloroform incident of the state's case.
Day 14 but Day 3 of witnesses...
ReplyDeleteThe state in re-cross asked Ricardo if he ever did internet searches on chloroform on defendants computer so they cleaned up Baez questions about that. And since Ricardo sold pictures of Caylee it may look like that is exactly what he did.
Another that was a wow for me was the night Casey left the residence and Caylee wasn't with her the next morning. Casey said her mom called and wanted Caylee to come home. He said this was not on June 9. We're left to believe it was after June 9... Caylee was last seen June 16 2008. (Casey had stayed at his apartment a few times even after they broke off in April- the breakup was friendly)
Other than a few foundation questions about how she met Casey, Melissa England's testimony began with all the daughter missing etc questions. However the story of Amy's missing money came in to the questions by Pros. ( Casey was accused of stealing money from her friend Amy and her granparents) While Melissa was at Target with Casey she said Casey got a phone call from her mom.She said it sounded like they were arguing and Casey told her when she hung up she'd argued with her mom. They went to mall together after leaving Target. She said she couldn't say Casey received a call while at mall but was on her cell phone texting throughout the day. Casey never mentioned her daughter, Caylee, until Troy's sister asked about her when they were there so Melissa could dress for the evening. She said Casey was happy and outgoing during their times together. When Casey would get phone calls she'd be upset and Troy told Melissa that Casey was arguing with her brother. She said Casey wanted to leave and go home so they did. She and Troy told her bye outside the bar. She said it was suggested she come Sunday with Tony and bring Caylee and Casey seemed to think that was a good idea. She had no calls or conversations with Casey after July 3.
Baez just asked a few short questions about can she tell them when Caylee died etc. She said no. He asked if Casey told her anything about what horrors she went through but a sidebar was called. Afterward, he had very few questions and they were less dramatic. The thing is, the point is made to jury.
Troy Brown was asked the same questions about Casey asking him to help find her daughter, if she told him that she was missing etc... he had met Casey in 2007 and saw Caylee the first time in 07. Him and Casey saw each other more after she began dating Ricardo Morales. He didn't know Tony Lazzaro very well. He had gone to Va in early June and came back June 18 - On June 24, 2008 Casey sent a message from FB to Troy Brown, saying she hadn't yet moved into the
house and she hadn't eaten the last 9 days and added 'drama' - He saw Casey again on July 2, 2008. (I noticed he called Casey 'the defendant'. Distancing himself from her I guess. )
Casey was driving Tony's car during her time with Melissa and Troy Brown. (Tony had testified that he didn’t give her permission to use his car while he was on vacation) On July 3, 2008 he said Casey was on phone a lot and was crying. He said he and Melissa went back to Ricardo's house because she asked they leave. He said after that he talked to her a couple times. Only July 10 she told him she wasn't going on vacation with him to and other friends to Puerto Rico. On July 15, Casey picked them up at airport in Amy's car after they returned from their trip.
Day 14 but Day 3 of witnesses..
ReplyDeleteIassen Donod met Casey in 2007 when she was dating Brandon Snow. He said Casey said she had a nanny care for Caylee that she'd known for 6 years when he asked about her. In an AOL messenger chat on July 13 2008 Casey and Iassen discussed her moving out. She had been looking at apartments and wanted to move within a week. She also mentioned Caylee had a nanny and she loved her. Casey told him that she had a boyfriend. Iassen was interested in her too and that was in the chat messages too. Casey invited him to Fusion but he never went.
Baez questions weren't anything with a wow. He asked if Iassen could tell how Caylee died and he said "No sir." Baez asked if he told LE that she was a heavy drinker, she would leave early and drink late when she went to parties. He said yes.
Dante Salati is a mechanic. He went to high school with Casey and kept in touch with her off and on. He said he met Caylee multiple times. And the normal 'did she mention Caylee missing' etc questions.
Baez did his usual questions. He asked if Dante saw how much Caylee loved Casey. And how attentive of a mother Casey was. He said yes to all the questions. He never saw a change before June 16 and after. Answer no. He asked if Dante found it shocking having knowing Casey and Caylee's love for each other that there was no change in Casey's behavior after June 16. Answer yes.
(I hope Baez knows what he is doing with all these questions to friends about how Casey and Caylee reacted to each other. It could backfire on him)
Christopher Stutz (he's 23 and looked literally scared to death- I felt bad for him having to be there. ) He has known Casey since 2005. He saw her in 2008 in May. She came to his parents home. He knew he had a daughter, and Caylee was with her that day. In June of 2008. He saw her driving a Black Jeep on Mother's Day in June of 08 at his parents house. Caylee wasn't with her. She didn't mention her daughter missing and all the other questions were asked. She told him on that day the jeep was a friends car and hers was broken down. In July he was at Buffalo Wild Wings and saw Casey with a couple friends and she seemed upbeat and happy. In mid July he received a text message from Casey saying Caylee had been missing for 30 days. hen he received a call from a member of her family. He said yes from Lee.
Baez asked if Christopher told LE that Casey didn't like to drink and go out because she didn't want to leave Caylee with her mother and father. He said yes. He saw how Caylee would react loving with Casey. Never saw her neglected etc questions were asked.
Mtthew Crsip is 24 and is a residential property manager. He helps people find apartments. In June of 08 he was doing similar work in Winter Park. He has known Casey since 2002. They kept in contact. In mid June in 08 they spoke about finding an apartment. He met Casey and her boyfriend in hte leasing office. She didn't tell him her daughter was missing etc questions were asked. He said she was happy. He didn't show her an apartment because she didn't have ID on her but he showed her boyfriend an apartment. He saw her again on July 7 2008 and met her at Subway for lunch. He asked about Caylee was and she said Caylee was in Sanford on a play date with a girlfriend's child. Pros asked if he remembered having an interview on July 17 2008 and if he remembered the date he saw Casey and her boyfriend at the apartment and it was on June 19 2008. (That was a great point to make!)
Cheney Mason questioned Matthew and asked if he ever met Caylee and if he ever saw her unhappy and abused and Matthew said no. Cheney asked if he knew how, when or where Caylee died. He said no to all of the questions.
Day 14 but Day 3 of witnesses..
ReplyDeleteIn conclusion I found today to be incredible with all the friends being called, even if it was same ol' same ol' questions of each one. I didn’t find my mind wandering off and the lawyers all held my attention. The friends did bring something to it- all said Caylee and Casey were loving toward each other anytime they saw them together. So it begs the question, how could Casey kill her child? I suppose, to be fair to both sides, these friends testimony could play into either side's theory of what happened to Caylee at this time.
Only time and more witnesses will tell more of the story, I look forward to the beginning of forensic evidence although I think we will hear from LE before that evidence comes in. I know majority of the people watching this trial has Casey guilty (media sure convinced me she is and I didn't read all the document drops or articles surrounding this case. I did listen to radio shows concerning it over the last 3 years and agreed with those guilty people. ) But, when all is said
and done, it doesn't matter what the pundits or armchair jurors say because only this seated jury
through all they have heard the last 3 days and the rest of the evidence they hear will answer the questions for them. Whether or not I will change my guilty vote is not made at this time for sure. I will wait until Pros has closed before I say they have or haven't proved their case in my mind. And then wait and see if defense does anything with their case.
I am late posting this update from Friday because of personal situations that caused me not to complete the write up until today.
ReplyDeletePlease remember this is simply views and thoughts on the trial up to the date of witnesses testimony and not what is extraneous that we've heard in media or what we will or may hear in future.
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Day 15- day 4 of testimony Friday, May 27, 2008
At the start of day, Friday, motions were made. I think state has done same thing they complained to Judge Perry about with hearsay questions and wanting to limit defense questions. Judge has stopped both sides from asking these questions and witnesses answer before objection can be made or Judge can stop them. I actually can see defense side of that argument. Judge granted the motion. As usual the defense made a motion for mistrial. This is natural in all trials. Nothing new there. It too, was denied.
Mallory Parker is a 27-year-old customer service representative and is Lee Anthony's fiancee. She said she and Casey kept in touch with each other in June and July of 2008. She is close to Cindy and George now more than she was in 08. In July 08 she texted Casey for Lee asking if she was downtown. She, Lee and Danny Alvarez went to a club and she attempted to text Casey on July 3. They felt she was downtown because of information from family friends. Casey wasn't at the club. She said she text her 5 maybe 6 times. Casey told her via text she just wanted some space and didn't want family to worry about her.
Casey and Lee talked that night. ( I'm thinking it's the same night she was with Troy and Melissa and told them she just wanted to go home. Because Melissa England mentioned Casey saying she had argued with her brother and Troy mentioned it also.)
Baez asked if she was looking for Casey because Cindy wanted them to. She said correct. She said Caylee's love for her mother was amazing. Mallory was crying and said they had a very special bond.
William Waters met Casey on July 4 2008 with Amy. Amy and Casey were decorating his house for a party. He said Casey was polite and good conversationalist. Casey didn't mention her daughter was missing etc questions were asked. Casey did tell him she had a child that day but Caylee wasn't with her. On July 5, 2008 he saw Casey around 7:30/8 in morning. They went to Target and a couple other places, including window shopping because Casey said she was moving, then they went back to his home.
(Personally I think she was looking for someone to move in with so she could mooch off them and was hinting. She mentioned to all her friends she was moving.)
Casey canceled their plans for 10th and they texted but he didn't see her again.
Baez called Casey living in a world of her own, she had a job and loved that job. He asked Waters about it. Part of the world was included that she was happy. Waters said yes to both, other than her world of Tony. He said he believed Casey was going to actually live with Amy, get in a live in nanny to care for both their children and pay for the Nanny.
Pros recrossed and asked if she was convincing with her story and Waters said there was no reason to believe any different.
Sanchez worked for Amscot and on June 27, 2008 she noticed 1998 while Pontiac Sunfire parked in the lot beside the dumpster. On Sat the car was still there and she wrote down the car's lincense plate number and checked to see if anyone had left a note on the car but found nothing. She looked inside the car and said she saw a blanket in the back seat. She didn't smell anything particular emanating from the car all she smelled was normal dumpster trash odors. She notified her superior and he said wait one more day before calling for it to be towed. On Monday the 30th she contacted a tow since it was still there.
Day 15- day 4 of testimony Friday, May 27, 2008
ReplyDeleteSimon Birch testified about how the Pontiac Sunfire was picked up on June 30 2008 and brought to the yard. On the third business date a letter was sent to the registered owner via ceritfied mail. (which would be the 3rd of July) The company can retain the car or retitle and sell the car if it was not picked up within 35 days. He said on 3rd or 4th day he usually inspects vehicles on the yard in case no one picks them up. So he did so on the 4th day (again on July 3rd.)When he put his hand on the windshield to look inside he caught the scent coming from the car.
The car had been there 2 weeks when the Anthony's came to get the car and he explained about how Cindy was upset and how when George walked over to the car with him, he apologized for Cindy's outburst with the clerk and explained their granddaughter was missing. (Birch volunteered that George was very calm and humble) He also said when George opened the door of the car he smelled the odor again very intently, and when George opened the trunk he smelled the odor stronger. He said the car cranked but refused to fire. So George went back to his car and removed a can of gas. (The older metal gas can mentioned in earlier testimony as being one with duct tape on it)
(Actually, depending on how jurors' mind work it can be that parts of Birch's testimony is hard to believe. A lot of his testimony is very believeable to me but not all of it. Even the woman at the offices who reported it abandoned didn't smell anything around the car. All she smelled was the scents of the trash bin. And too, nothing was ever developed about that other vehicle that a decomposed body was in for
several days and where exactly it was located in the yard nor if it was there at the same time Casey's car was there. )
Birch said he was just trying to appease George - he said they looked in the trash bag in trunk and saw a pizza box and papers. Household refuse. He said the bag was very light. He didn't make a statement about it being the source of the odor to Gorge nor did George mention it as such. Birch took the bag and threw the bag over the fence. Ater George and Cindy left, George left in the towed car and Cindy in the other vehicle. Birch went and got the bag and put it in the dumpster.
Birch didn't report the alleged decomp scent after George drove off in the car, yet George had told him his granddaughter was missing and that really bothers me with how jurors could think. ( I'm not saying they are thinking that way because I would never presume to know what jurors are thinking at this point in the trial). George and Cindy came to pick up the car on July 15, 2008.
Baez was the one who brought out that Birch knew a child was missing and it was all over the media and Birch had not reported a presumed decomp odor in a car at his tow yard. He got Birch to admit he'd never obstruct justice by allowing someone to drive a car away with evidence of a homicide ... yet, he never contacted them when George picked up the car. Also that one of his employees told him it was the same car yet they had also picked up at Anthony's residence and taken to forensics and he had not contacted them about the odor. He said he'd never do that. He had no idea why it was taken to forensics yet he called them about the garbage bag.
( I don't believe that. After all, surely the man has common sense- he had to think about it being at forensics and he'd smelled decomp - anyone would've put two and two together, car at tow yard with decomp smell, child missing, car towed to forensics. Duh! ) Baez is also the one who brought out that George was the one who mentioned the car was at Amscot for 3 days so although he never knows how long a car is at a location of pickup he knew how long the firebird was there.
Day 15- day 4 of testimony Friday, May 27, 2008
ReplyDeletePros tried to clean up Birch. How well she did is each person's own mind. But, in mine, she did not do so well. It was when he called LE to report the garbage bag incident that she brought out. He said the Anthony's were on TV about child missing and he thought the bag might still be on the property but didn't find it, still he called LE anyway.
Baez came back and asked about ... despite having called LE he didn't give a sworn statement until the 24th when an officer came to talk to him -and during that conversation he told the officer what he saw and heard on television too. Birch agreed.
George was called back to the stand again to talk about the car being at a towyard. He said he learned of it by a postal service notice on their front door on Sunday July 13th of a certified letter at post office.
Since it was Sunday they couldn't go pick up the letter. On Monday he couldn't because of other issues but went on Tuesday the 15th. He said he remembers an address and when it was towed was on the letter. He said he was off guard that he thought the car was in Jacksonville with his daughter and called Cindy. He went to tow yard and said he was upset about the dollar amount so he contacted Cindy.
George left and he and Cindy went back together to get the car. He took gas with him in the can. He said it was a common sense thing. George said they came to an agreement with a certain amount due to it being so long without notice. He said he was escorted to the car and as he approached the vehicle within about 3 foot of the passenger of the car he did smell odor. He had smelled something like that some years prior. (Again a flashback, Birch claimed he didn't smell it until he leaned in to peer through the windows yet George smelled it within 3 foot of the car.)
[A note: granted George's smell was at least 10 days later and the smell in the car would have become stronger in heat with windows up and doors shut 24/7 but you have to think, Birch had to be around or near that car again checking other vehicles in that location and would've smelled it again stronger from further away than him having to lean in to car window. ]
George said he was worried everything was okay ... he wasn't wanting to believe what he smelled. He said he put the key in to unlock the drivers door he said the odor was more intense. He said he couldn't see anything as far as his daughter or granddaughter in it.(He had not at this time seen Caylee since June 16 and Casey around June 24th) He said he did roll down the passenger side window too.
George said he drove the mile or mile and half with the windows all the way down. He left the windows down after he got home, to help air the car out. He said he saw a slight circular type stain in the trunk where spare tire is kept. Maybe basket ball size. The interior of car was normal condition.
Day 15- day 4 of testimony Friday, May 27, 2008
ReplyDeleteBaez went back over the date he got the notice on his front door and had him mark his calendar. Baez made the same assumption as I have- that if letter was sent and when it should have arrived at their home which is on the 7th of July. Baez also brought out that they never received a second notice of the letter or any other notice of the car being towed. George said no. He also asked if George had not called Amscott. George said he did after he arrived at work that day. He did not notify Birch that he had called Amscott so no way could Birch know he had called them. George said no.
( My thought is that he implied there that Birch didn't give credible evidence which is same as I thought with Birch testimony - he wasn't consistent with reasonable actions one would take under the circumstances of smelling decomp odor.)
George said he had not spoken to Casey or seen her since June 24 th. after asked by Baez- that was 3 and half weeks after he arrived at tow yard. He also told Birch about Caylee missing- but George said he told Birch he had not seen Caylee or Casey not that she was missing.
(again my thought is that Baez was using George to impeach Birch - did it work with jurors? I don't know but it sure gave me something to think about as far as what we have heard so far and only what we've heard so far during live trial- not what we've learned in last 3 years via media or document dumps and media interviews by Anthonys etc.)
Baez used George's statements to LE on July 24 2008 against him too. George tried to pull back from giving any new evidence with Baez questions. He again said if you are trying to trick me you are going to trick me. George said all he found was a bag full of garbage. What Baez wanted him to say was if what he smelled was stronger when he opened up the trunk of car than when he opened the door. George kept walking around the bush. He looked over at prosecutors but Baez said, Mr. Ashton can't help you sir. George finally said no and got hostile with Baez answer-wise afterward. Baez asked if he called 911 although he smelled decomp and was worried about his daughter and granddaughter. George said looking back there was a lot of things he wished he'd done.
( I may not like it but I think he did do a good job with George not calling police after smelling decomp. Baez knows how to get to George and he is doing it each time George is on the stand.)
Baez brought out about George meeting secretly with LE and telling them about the smell in the car and his experiences too. Pros objected vigorously during Baez questioning but Judge kept allowing a lot of the questions. Baez asked if the reason George drove the car home and didn't call the police was because he knew Caylee was deceased. George said no. He said George knew if he distanced himself and went to work is because he knew he would be last person questioned. George said no.
Pros Ashton tried cleaning George up again. I think he did a somewhat fair with his one question. Ashton used hypothetical about how there would be nothing to run away from as far as the car was if he had allowed Caylee to drown and dump her in the woods. George said no. Ashton used Baez own theory against him.
Tony Lazarro was called again to the stand by Prosecutor but I will write my view on that tomorrow before I do my views on Saturday's testimony. I am very tired and my brain doesn't want to focus on my memory of what I heard in the trial.
Disclaimer: I realized on my comments of day 15 of trial, day 4 of testimony I headed the day as 2008. I can't correct that error unless I delete and repost the comments. 2008 was in my head because that is the fateful year Caylee died. So please take this as a correction. The actual date should be:
ReplyDeleteDay 15- day 4 of testimony Friday, May 27, 2011
Day 15- day 4 of testimony Friday, May 27, 2011
ReplyDeleteTony was to talk about chats he had with Casey on an AOL messenger. Baez objected to the chats being brought in and Judge Perry sent jurors out for an argument then decided to send them home for the day to discuss the chats with lawyers. Some of it was refused by Judge but I still want to mention a part of what jury won't hear and give my thoughts. Mainly I want to mention it to put it all in perspective in my own mind.
The first part of the chats were from April 29th 2008, May 5th, 2008 and June 10th 2008 that were in question. Ashton said due to the Judge's concerns they weren't going to use April 29th and May 5th 2008.
The June 10th 2008 portion they wanted in evidence dealt with Lazzaro wanting to go over to see Casey that night and Casey telling him in a few days he can come over anytime he wants but brushed him off that day because child and parents were home. (this was according to Prosecutors theory of what the chat meant). They wanted to present it to help establish motive. She was stuck in that house and held back by her daughter. After 16th it was over for her she would be free and clear.
(To me it showed premeditation also and that goes to the first degree death penalty) However, there is a downside to it- I agree with the Judge, (although he did say, don't answer that to Pros., I was thinking it when he metioned it) why didn't she kill her parents also since she was being held back by both her parents and the child?
The prosecutors have presented witness after witness stating Casey was going to move into an apartment with Amy and pay for a sitter for both their children. Although we did hear they were going to move to Casey's home too, the apartment was the most highlighted. I have mixed emotions on all that. Seems to me it would be hurtful to state's case and to a degree helpful too. But, would it (that particular portion) be more helpful than hurtful? I think hurtful after giving it full consideration so I am glad the judge refused the chat portion on June 10. Especially since the state has set in stone that her car smelled of decomposition with George's testimony and the testimony of Birch. No one but Casey drove that car. (that we've heard so far anyway) I will state again, I did not like Birch. I just felt he wasn't wholly credible. His testimony had holes in it to me. Although he somewhat helped the state , he helped the defense too. The state has decided to not introduce the chats at this time so we may hear them later in trial.
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ReplyDeleteDay 16 day 5 of trial Saturday May 28, 2011
ReplyDeleteTony Lazzaro was still the witness and the state walked him through his coming home from his vacation and her picking him up in his car. She stayed with him from July 5 through July 15th. Tony said there was no change in Casey during those days that wasn't the same as it was before he left for vacation. Also, an orientation sheet from a university with some handwriting on it. His and someone named Cameron. Tony's address was on it, but it wasn't in his handwriting was introduced. And a receipt for blockbuster with his name on it was introduced from June 16, 08 at 7:58 PM. Casey was with him when he rented the movies. (This was the last day Cindy and George saw Caylee and allegedly the day she died) Tony played xbox with Nate on July 15th, 2008, Casey was at his apartment also. He said Amy came over, she and Amy looked at each other and Casey walked out with her. A few minutes later the door opened again and Casey came running back in and Cindy was standing at the door too. Casey and Cindy yelled at each other, and Casey said 'no, I'm coming back' to her mom in reference to her mom's demand. Both left but Casey had left her phone. Later, a deputy came over and he gave the cell phone to him. A little later the deputy came back and he allowed the deputy to search his apartment. The deputy didn't take anything. Lee Anthony came over and he appeared concerned. Tony gave Lee a bag of clothes and a laptop belonging to Casey.
On July 16, 2008 Casey texted Tony and told him she was sorry for not telling him for what happened. (refering to Caylee missing at that time) He asked her where's Caylee. And she said she didn't know. Tony said he was upset. These text were very telling and to me they hurt the defense theory. She calls herself the dumbest person and worse mother. (I agree)
She lied to him on text too, covering her behind, when she said Zanny nanny use to be her buddy's nanny before she became hers.
What thrills me is Caylee is mentioned daily in this trial. She is there. She is what this trial is about. Casey's need finally takes backseat to Caylee.
Baez still protecting Casey as he should. He made statements really instead of asking questions about the text messages. He got Tony to say where dumpsters were at the apartments and that he would have to drive to the front exit or walk. (We can assume this was due to the trash bag evidence that the receipt and college orientation sheet was in. Alluding to, I presume, the trash in Casey's car at tow yard was from his apartment where Casey took it out for him.)
Day 16 day 5 of trial Saturday May 28, 2011
ReplyDeleteCindy Anthony was called to the stand. Her testimony was understandably very emotional but Cindy gave some very good solid evidence to me. Some was basic (connected to Caylee's room the
maintenance of their back yard and improvements etc) but it set an overall picture in the mind.
I have to admit that I became bored with all the verification of the home etc but it's a necessary process. The pros showed a photograph of Caylee at the nursing home visiting her great grandfather on June 15, 2008. June 15th 2008 was the last time Cindy saw Caylee. She had shown Casey the pictures and video of her and Caylee's day on the night of the 15th. She said it was a special time for her and Casey and Caylee together before they went to bed. On June 16th she thought Casey had a babysitter named Zanny. She was a primary person (Cindy thought) that Casey left Caylee with since 2006. Casey also had a lady called Lauren who kept Caylee some. Cindy had met her but she had not met Zanny- she said when she first heard of her, Zanny was suppose to be living in an apartment close to the university. But she moved around a lot.
On the 17th she still had not seen Caylee and Casey made mentioned that she was going to stay and keep Caylee there with Zanny. On the 18th she said Casey said they were headed to Tampa and she was told it'd be fun to take Caylee with her and since Zanny was free she was willing to go with her. Always an excuse. (And Cindy fell for them. ) Cindy thought she'd see them Sat evening. She said she had talked to Casey at some point during those few days. But she didn't talk with Caylee because Casey said Caylee wasn't with her. She'd be with Zanny and Anabelle or some other reason. Casey had told her they hadn't finished and she hadn't had time at park with Caylee and they'd return Sunday or Monday. This was the 23rd. Cindy believed her. She said she had called Casey and was worried because she hadn't reached her and then late that day she'd gotten a call and Casey said there was a car accident and they were okay. But Zanny had gotten into a serious car accident. She said Casey assured her
Caylee and her were okay but she wasn't there at that moment - Someone had taken Caylee and the other lady's child had taken them to walk around. On June 24th George had contacted the sheriff's office about the shed information and had called Cindy about it also. She said she'd told Casey about it in a phone call. Then she was told George had seen Casey at the house and she contacted Casey and asked about it. Casey had volunteered to come back to pick up Zanny's personal papers and take back to the hospital. She asked about why she didn't bring Caylee home but Casey said it didn't occur to her. (Yep. Always a believable excuse.)
Day 16 day 5 of trial Saturday May 28, 2011
ReplyDeleteCindy didn't see Casey on the 25th, 26th or 27th. But they were coming home Friday. Cindy said Casey said they were back and she thought she was going to be off but was called in to work for a few hours. Cindy was suppose to see them at home but again Casey gave an excuse about a boyfriend and his son being in town. This was Jeffery who had allegedly introduced
Casey to Zanny. Starting June 30th through July 4th Cindy was on another vacation. (this was during the time the car was left at Amscott and towed too.) Boy, Casey was a great story teller.
Cindy said she was in communication with Casey and thought she knew where she was. She said she was expecting to watch Caylee the week of her vacation and she told Casey that but it didn't come to be. (More excuses)
On July 3rd Cindy realized, after going to Universal, that Casey was lying to her. But when she called one of Casey's friends he said he had talked to Casey and she was suppose to go to Jacksonville so she once again felt she could believe in Casey. But still, she decided to enlisted the help of Lee and he felt she wasn't in Jacksonville due to the chatter on myspace. On July 8th she created a myspace account. She thought it was a way to reach out to Casey but she didn't realize anybody could read it. Cindy said Casey said she was being hard on her by writing that.
I really do feel Cindy's testimony hurt the defense. All her stories to her mother about being out of town are contradicted by the pictures and videos already in evidence.
Day 17- day 6 of trial testimony: Tuesday May 31, 2011
ReplyDeleteI enjoy listening to legal arguments in trials. The arguments by 'both' sides, Lee's attorney and defense, of the him requesting to be allowed to sit in court during this trial was really educational. Lee Anthony's request was granted and he can sit in court although he will be called as a witness.
Go Cindy Anthony! Cindy talked about the month of July and Casey's car being picked up at Johnson's tow yard. Once the car was in the garage she went toward the garage, and she could smell the car. She said it smelled like something had died in the car and said what died. Then she learned garbage had been in the car. She said George took the battery out in case Casey came and took the car before they could speak to her. She said she took Casey's purse, Caylee's doll and backpack from the car but left odds and ends in it. She said she wiped down the dolls hands and face with a chlorox wipe then sprayed the doll and all through the car with febreze. Casey said she has had experience with rotting or decomposing flesh. She said although she used the expression what died she didn't mean it literally. She was satisfied with what George told her about what happened at the tow yard (garbage in car). [ To me, it appears both were in denial, scared to contemplate Caylee being dead at that time and I can understand that. Reality is harsh. ] Much ado was made about a dryer sheet in the car. I can't imagine what a person goes through when there is a murder by a family member. I don't see the problem with who put a dryer sheet in the car. It stunk to high heaven, she had no idea Caylee was dead... deodorizing was normal.
I'm not going to go into all Cindy said in her testimony about her going to Tony's and getting Casey etc because it's nothing we haven't heard from other witnesses. She said her and Casey drove for quite some time but Casey wasn't giving straight answers and she drove up to a substation then realized it was closed so she told Casey it was her last chance to tell her what was going on. I felt for Cindy while she was testifying. The 911 calls were hard to listen to again. Cindy was so upset when she talked about Caylee missing and the smell in the car. The theft call was more calmer but I felt it was made more to scare Casey into telling the truth than to take action against her for theft. She went home because Lee had called her. Lee asked Cindy allow him to talk to Casey before she called police again and she allowed it. Casey was still saying Caylee was with Zanny. Casey refused again and after Lee couldn't convince Casey, Cindy called 911 again. This is the one where she says Caylee is possibly missing, she had just found Casey because she had been missing too but they couldn't find her grandaughter and gives June 30th as day car was stolen. She said one time when she looked in to Casey's room she overheard that Caylee had been gone for 31 days. Cindy said she lost it and swore at her and hit the bed. 911 call # 3 was the hardest of all to listen to. Casey got on phone and said she got a call that day and spoke to her daughter for about a minute. ( She lied with that!) She gave the operator Zanny's full name and said she'd been the nanny for 2 years. (another lie)
I think for the first time since this trial began (there'll likely be more times) I wanted to slap Baez. The having Casey stand and Cindy look at her was ridiculous to me then to ask questions related to Casey's feminine issues was too. I think having Cindy testify about all Casey's imaginary friends is a way for him to attempt gaining sympathy for his client. I don't feel sympathy for Casey for sure. I make it as she's a compulsive and or pathological liar. Baez went over and over everything Cindy said and did. I understand fully his client needs a fair and just defense but I did tire of hearing him question Cindy. He was using attack mode in a polite tone at times.
Day 17- day 6 of trial testimony: Tuesday May 31, 2011
ReplyDeleteThe one thing that I liked about Amy Huizenga was when Casey told one of her fantasises and said they were going to move into George and Cindy's house, Amy wanted to meet them. She said she felt it was the thing to do if she and Casey were going to live together and Caylee would be there. I agree. She had morals Casey was lacking to me. She told Amy her mom was crazy and she needed space. The most powerful testimony was Amy and Casey's text and phone calls about a bad smell in her car. Casey felt it was something had gotten run over. (Yeah right, Casey. Always ready with an excuse for any situation.) She'd claimed she wanted to keep Caylee out of her mom and dad's drama. (What a funny funny person Casey is) The only drama was because of Casey not George and Cindy wanting to divorce. The reason she gave Amy for them not moving in the Anthony home was goofy if not totally dumb. Mom retracted the paperwork at bank. Amy also testified about the night she took Cindy to where Casey was. She said Cindy's demeanor was confrontational. She said Cindy's first question to Casey was where is Caylee and Casey said with the nanny. She said Casey was defensive but she was about but not as confrontational as Cindy was. She said it was after some persuasion that Casey agreed to leave with Cindy.
(I thought I had included this with the earlier comment but apparently since it isn't showing I neglected to do so.)
TigressPen
Day 18- day 8 of trial testimony Wed June 1, 2011
ReplyDeleteI do not know how long it'd take for the smell of decomp to build inside a vehicle but if it smelled on June 27 but wasn't overpowering then stunk horrifically on July 15 which is about 3 weeks, then I am a bit concerned with when Caylee's body was in that car. State is alluding to June 16 being the day Caylee died and that is 11 days before the car began to smell. (according to Casey's text to Amy and the day she left it at Amscott) Baez alluded to Amy going after Casey's boyfriends. (a jealousy hint, I guess)
Overall I wasn't impressed with Lee's direct testimony of anything connected with the events prior to July 15. Even then he had to have his memory refreshed. He didn't recall a lot. I just felt he was in protective mode concerning all his family members during much of his testimony. He did say he smelled the car that night, July 15, and it was potent. He said Casey appeared combative and Cindy was equal or even more so. He followed Casey to her bedroom and Casey and Cindy were continuing the discussion about where Caylee was.
Lee said Casey told him their mother had numerous times thrown it in her face that she was an unfit mother and Casey allegedly said, maybe I am. He said he was frustrated with Casey. Pros did finally get Lee to verify that Casey said Caylee was missing and she had been trying to find her herself. She said she camped out in her car at the last place she saw Caylee, watching the place.
Miss Simms question to Lee about George having keys to Caylee's Pontiac seemed to me to imply that he could've had Caylee's body in that car since he had access to it and the trunk. Then she went straight to asking if George went straight to Casey's room when he came in that night of July 15. (Ahh, the little innuendoes of defense... this thought came from what I felt she was alluding to with the question.) The who packed bags questions were equally ridiculous, Cindy had already said she had taken some things out then put them back in so logically she'd have folded the blankets etc...
Day 18- day 8 of trial testimony Wed June 1, 2011
ReplyDeleteThe first officer to arrive at Anthony home, Fletcher, saw the Sunfire and used the garage to exit the home when he spoke with Casey. He said he didn't smell anything emitting from the car. He also said he went to the apartment where Casey said Caylee was left and knocked on the door and got no answer, the apartment appeared empty. Officer Adriana Acevedo was the one who drove Casey to the home where she said Caylee was left. Nothing Wow in her testimony. Just that Casey said she was certain that was the apartment.
Baez asked about how George's demeanor was when she arrived at the home, and the Officer said calm- quiet. (once again my impression is he is hinting GA knows Caylee is dead.) I liked Officer Acevedo's demeanor on the stand. Very professional.
Cpl. Yuri Melich is the the one who did the tape interview of Casey and her very long story of the Nanny and her changing phone numbers and changing residences. (Tall tales from the imagination to which Casey seems to have an abundance. ) He actually took Casey to the locations she'd mentioned where nanny lived and she pointed them out to him. He said Casey had not mentioned she had friends or that she had stayed at locations across from places where nanny had lived.
Baez questioning of Melich's not securing the car was absurd to me also. He was just beginning his case. And he had no reason to check the car, reading her the Miranda or anything else. He acted like Melich should have immediately known Casey was lying through her teeth and Caylee was dead.
And to, Websleuths forum is just that. A message board forum with threads where people can post comments or whatever they desire to share. It's not a blog. I have a blog here, people who comment to what I share are commenting to a blog post. I got enough of defense lawyers attempting to destroy the lives and reputation of police officers during the Bradley Cooper trial. And that is what it seemed to me, due to what I heard of his argument, defense was attempting to do- destroy Melich's professional reputation. I wasn't impressed with his attack mode of Yuri Melich.
Day 19, day 9 of trial Thursday June 2 2011
ReplyDeleteJeffery Hopkins did not see his relationship with Casey as very good friends. He also said he did not work at Universal with Casey and did not introduce her to Zenida the nanny, he has no friend by that
name nor does he have a child. He said he did not see Casey in June of 2008 but did see her on July 2. Baez asked if his name was Jeffery 'Michael' Hopkins. Other than that, and of course showing
Casey's lies, Jeffery brought nothing to case to me. He said he has no idea what happened to Caylee.
Leonard Turtora works at Universal. In July of 2008 he met with Melich about Casey's employment. Mr. Tutora verified that Casey did not work at Universal but was employed by a 3rd party but it isn't
operated by Universal named color vision. She had not been employed since 2006 with them. He checked and Jeffery Hopkins and he had been in 2001-2002, Juliet Lewis wasn't an employee nor was
Zenida Gonzales an employee. An email address of Cheryl Davis was not verified either. He said he met the detectives with Casey at the security gate and she advised him she did not have her ID. She
said her supervisor was Thomas Manly and could not find a record of that name. Tutora took them with Casey to a building that wasn't an events building and at that time Casey finally said she did not work
there. (More lies from her.) Pros put it all in perspective on redirect that Casey knew when she came to Universal she did not work there but maintained her charade. (Until finally having to face the music and
admit she lied and had been lying about her employment)
Detective Melich was again on the stand. He talked about the trip to Universal and recapped what Tutora testified when he was on the stand. The taped session on July 16 2008 they had at Universal in a
small room after she said she didn't work there was played for the court with a transcript of it. The statement last an hour.. They, Melich, Allen and Wells, told her she had been lying to them and they needed
to find Caylee. She may not be in good shape. The Nanny did not exist at the apartment. The home across the street was a lie, it was a nursing home. She said she did not know where her daughter was.
They explained that she lied and they came to Universal trying to find Zenida and help her find Caylee. She maintained that the last person she saw Caylee with Zenida. Melich said no video at sawgrass
apartments. Melich said the cameras weren't operational. The zip file that Casey gave them had pics of Caylee on it and a file she downloaded of cell phone records (she did this download on a desktop in
a spare bedroom at her home) Melich said they received over 6 thousand tips and some of those were about a Zenida Gonzales but none panned out.
Day 19, day 9 of trial Thursday June 2 2011
ReplyDeleteCasey's cell phone records were brought into evidence today also. They also brought into evidence Caylee's 4 toothbrushes, a brush, a comb, and a thermometer, given to them by Cindy. He said Casey was placed under arrest for false information, obstruction, and child neglect.
Baez actually asked him about turning to the jury when answering questions. Good Grief! He threw Melich's words on a website message board against him- a missing person investigation can be akin to a murder investigation- (to me, he really wanted to establish that was Melich's thinking to later use his own message board words against him so as to discredit him.) And that he was considering Casey a suspect too.
Pros asked if Casey adopted the accidental drowning after the Universal interview and he said no. I loved Melich's testimony! He was very believeable to me. And he didn't allow Baez to get to him.
Whoopee we got to hear jailhouse videos. One visit was with Lee Anthony. Casey still lying and caring about Casey is all I heard on them. (And that is my opinion due to what I listened too) I think it was awesome that Lee's saying Baez first interest was himself was played in court. Baez objected when the vid was mid tape but Judge said it was untimely. I tired of listening to jailhouse vids but I know more are coming.
Of course Baez put up a motion after the vid of her with Lee as a visitor where they discussed lawyers etc. that it was prejudice to defense.
(In a way, I think Baez is right to complain, he is trying to defend his client and these statements does make it look he is a bad attorney and cares more for himself and not his client. Also that he is keeping information from his client and not following her wishes. The problem is, he didn't make motions in a timely manner to redact the vids and now his client is paying the price. I have to wonder if she can use it as incompetent lawyering in appeal. )
With all the tapes in this case, it seems at least one attorney that has come, gone or still sitting would've taken care of or reminded Baez to take care of this issue. Surely, they knew the vids would be made public in trial and shown to jury.
She was so full of it with saying getting Caylee home first was priority when talking to both Lee and her parents. I just believe had she not had such a unending 'trail of lies' then I'd have more confidence in her and think she is just plain mentally unbalanced than aything else.
Day 20 - day 10 of evidence June 3, 2011
ReplyDeleteI tired of listening to the jailhouse videos, and hearing Casey say 'oh, absolutely' when talking about finding Caylee. I didn't feel she was genuine, she never really talked about Caylee. She'd change the subject some of the time to something about herself and other things. When George kept encouraging her to talk to him tell her how all they wanted was to have her and Caylee home she'd again sigh and
eventually move to other things. All the vids did for the case was show how she lied and lied again to me.
In one vid Cindy said someone said Caylee was dead she drowned in a pool. Casey said 'surprise surprise'. Hmm. She was so concerned about her side, her feelings I just wanted to scream at the screen.
One thing the case is doing is gaining sympathy with me toward Cindy Anthony and George. I can't imagine what they go through daily from the beginning through to today. They were without a doubt to me in denial about Caylee and Casey. I was very upset with how they presented themself in the public. But who is to say how anyone would react to attacks of themself and their family.
I am really ready for this trial to end. Each evening I procrastinate before going to wftv and watching all the taped vids of the day's live session in court. (I don't listen daily as it happens) When I listen to those vids I really don't hear anything I haven't over the last years since Caylee was reported missing and this trial began. Actually, I feel I am watching a pretaped trial that TruTv's In Session often show. I listen to Levi Page radio show as he covers the trial. I feel he and his guest adequately cover what is heard daily in court. And sometimes I am tempted to write up my opinions strictly on what I hear on the show and not watch the vids of the actual trial. But, I don't do it that way.
The highlight of my nite Friday was Mason's questioning Ms. Beasley. I don't know why really, just when he became forward with his questions I snickered. Yes. I know it isn't entertainment and his questions are because he wants to properly represent his client. But he can make one smile and even snicker. It didn't lessen the seriousness to me.
Day 20 - day 10 of evidence Friday June 3, 2011
ReplyDeleteMcBride works with the missing persons unit. I like McBride, she has a soft voice, seemed to be caring, and appeared to be have an understanding personality. She is what families of missing children need when a loved one goes missing. She explained how she went to Johnson yard with George Anthony. They went to retrieve a trash bag that was in Casey's car. She was able to retrieve the bag of trash/garbage/refuse/ waste. You can cearly see the pizza box inside the white trash bag. She is also the one who got the computer tower and camera from Anthony's home. She said the tower and camera was given to John Allen. ( I am having flashbacks here with Cooper trial and the alleged proper way to retrieve cameras, phones, and computers. It's a timestamp & cell tower thing.)
Miss Narkiewicz took hair and buccal swabs from Casey at the correctional center. And her collection of personal belongings of Caylee's on July 28 (toothbrushes, brush, comb etc we heard about previously) Her testimony centered around collection and securing the evidence to show they weren't in any way contaminated at time of collection or transportation of them to lead investigator or forensics lab. Necessary stuff to show in any trial.
Bloisc is a crime scene investigator. He is the one who submitted the forensic evidence collected to the crime scene lab. Mr. Bloisc is also the one who Ms. Beasley turned the car over to. He said it was sealed at the time it arrived and placed in the forensic garage. He received the black trash bag from Beasley and the blue plastic crate with Caylee's items in it too. Mr. Bloisc testified he has smelled decomp many times. He said when he opened the driver door of the car he smelled the odor of decomp. He alsosaid he put gas in the car to see if the gas gauge worked. And found it was working properly.
I found the undercarriage of the car interesting. Nothing visible to show Casey was correct when she told her friend an animal must have been run over to cause the smell in her car. He found dry leaves under it also. One on the transmission and one next to the chassis area of front tire. He found no animal parts beneath the vehicle. Dirt residue was found in the trunk - visible in the picture. And a dryer sheet (presumably Cindy placed that to cover the smell in it) He also found a dry leaf in the trunk spare tire. Once he removed the liner from the trunk you could see debris. (dirt and leaves) Of course after years of usage there is no way to show when all that debris got there. This pic was after the whole liner was out and you see is metal. He showed the jury where he located a human hair on the liner. (We heard evidence where one hair was found that was possibly from a decomposed body in the anylasis)
In cross Baez brought out that during decomp you'd see maggots but left it without further explanation. And that when a spray was done to test for blood in the trunk, it was negative. I thought Baez did a good job questioning Bloisc although he didn't bring out anything Wow. I liked his recross more on the usage of human decomposition during Pros questioning compared to the just use of decompostion in defense questioning. A point to make that could show bias for state in Bloisc testimony.
Day 21 - day 11 of evidence Saturday June 3, 2011
ReplyDeleteMiss Lowe discussed the hair bands in her testimony. She said hair has been around in literature since late 1700s but microscopic examinations in FBI has been done since the 1940s in this country. She said in her field hair can't be positively be identified as from one person in particular. But, if she can conclude there are microscopic similarities in comparison she can say they consistent as coming from same source but can't say with 100% surety.
I found Ms Lowe's education on hair bands and post mortem effects on hairs very interesting. Including the decompostition effect on hairs. In the case of Caylee- the testing on one hair was that powerful Wow. That was the hair tested and found to have apparent decomposition. ( It had the darkened band) I think it shows conclusively that Caylee was in the trunk of that car and deceased. And since Casey was the only one who drove that car at the time she went missing then who could have put Caylee in that trunk but her. We heard nothing about one of her friends driving her car only that she drove theirs.
Yes we have scent of decomp in the car along with the hair but we can't jump the gun, it isn't case over yet as far as Casey's guilt in the death of her child.
Baez didn't do bad when he did his cross of Ms Lowe but he didn't do anything substantive to show that doubt exists the hair belonged to Caylee due to the testing or conclusion drawn being faulty. He tried but didn't impeach this witness.
I was very impressed with the experts we've heard so far. The chloroform evidence was astounding. And decomp odor was also. I was greatly impressed with Mr. Vass evidence but I wasn't with his actions/expressions while testifying when sidebars were called. To me he simply didn't carry himself professionally during that time. Nor did during parts of defense questioning. At one point he had his tongue in corner of his mouth and he had a snicker look about him when Baez was asking about certain compounds and writing those on his exhibit paper for jurors to see. That turned me off for sure.
ReplyDeleteI think Pros did very well with these witnesses and gave jurors and those watching the trial much to consider. He certainly did me. Overall I felt Baez handled Vass well. I was impressed by him. Sorry, I think his client is guilty. But she is being represented and receiving a fair trial.
I'm not a Baez cheerleader for sure, far from it, but at least I haven't wanted to reach through and give him one of those renowned fictional character, Jethro Leroy Gibbs, head slaps as I did with Mr. Kurtz during the Bradley Cooper trial.
I'm not sure at this point (and we've heard good evidence to show guilt) that I'd say Casey deserves the DP but yes, I would at this time say LWOP is appropriate. I shall see after the trial is over if I still think so... we have a lot to hear yet.
Since the Jason Young trial starts tomorrow afternoon and I will be watching it live. So, I will be running behind watching vids of the days testimony so updates of my opinions will be delayed.
ReplyDeleteDay 23 - day 13 of evidence Tuesday June 7, 2011
ReplyDeleteOkay so I didn't feel overly excited with all the testimony Monday and Tuesday June 6&7. I was caught between being bored and enjoying what I was hearing. It's all the stage setting that makes me yawn, although it is a necessary part of the legal yarn we hear.
I liked the dog testimony after they got to the actual visit to the Anthony home and the back yard. This evidence appeared to bolster the state's case because of all the predicates that was set. Impressive training and success! We heard more about dog handling training than I've ever heard in a case before.
The dogs hit on an area of the back yard and the car.
It's the back yard I want to play the 'what if' game with because I like doing that.
We heard in Baez opening that Caylee drowned in that pool. We've heard defense mention the ladder down/ladder up stuff a few times with witnesses. So- 'What If' the jury stop and thinks only of what the dog alerted to and gets over the wow of all the stage building vids from training. (which they should with defendant guilt) The dog alerted to an area where Caylee played -jurors could go hmmm with that. And to cap it off, 'what if' they then think not only did the dog alert to her section of the yard, but when the dog was there later, after the digging was done... it didn't alert. Which means top dirt was all that held the scent. We have been told Caylee died in that yard. So it makes sense she could be there in death scent. Then what if they question. Did GA actually find her dead and lay her body over in her palyhouse area until he could dispose of it? And Casey wasn't involved in the actual death. It was an accident.
Nervoiusness has set in with little my what if so I remind myself. No way! I do think Casey had her body in that back yard. I think she laid her there while she gathered up trash bags and other things she wanted to put in the bag with Caylee. Performing her own little funeral service for her daughter. Then she loaded the bag with Caylee in it back in that trunk and dumped her where her body was found. That yard has a good fence around it and she could have done this without being seen by neighbors.
I still have questions about timing of all this. But, I'm sure as the trial continues the timeline will fill in. At some point between the morning of the 17th of June and the 24th of June (when she and George had their gas can/shed broken into argument) if Casey did it then she was back at her parents home with her child's body.
Day 24 - day 14 of evidence Wednesday June 8, 2011
ReplyDeleteI admit I held my breathe at times when testimony on Casey's computer, camera and phone examinations was being heard. After watching a trial in NC where defense attacked the internet searches and claiming timestamp errors showed someone tampered with the machine among other things connected to the searches, I didn't know how Casey's defense would handle their questions. Of course the norm is for any defense argument that anyone in the house could sign on. But that was disproved here, to me.
I was totally shocked to hear she used Ricardo's computer. IIRC the boyfriends were all asked if she used their computers and they said no. Hmm. I think defense could have done better blaming Ricardo than George. He seems to pop up with odd situations surrounding him. The selling of pictures, the talk about I got up and Casey was there but Caylee wasn't, now the usage of his computer and the search for Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez.. Casey's search was after Caylee was missing on her computer but I don't know about when it was on Ricardo's comp. Maybe my brain toned out when it was told in court. Still, he does seem to pop up with strange things! Admittedly, I have no doubts in my mind, Casey was searching.
In truth, I have basically heard about all I wanted to hear of this case. But, a few things are left I want to hear, even as I know it'll make me ill. The finding of Caylee's body. The forensic on her body and the crime scene evidence.
Thank you Miss Osborne on the ways cell phone examinations can be hampered! I was truly impressed and learned some things with the camera information and how they can embed information.
I wonder, is Casey a slow study? Geez, 84 searches on how to make chloroform?
I smile with the household weapons and Baez contention they weren't relevant. He tried to attack the ones who investigated the case and did the comp forensic examinations and attempted to show reasonable doubt. (That brought on another flashback from the other trial that makes me cringe with disgust.) I really am surprised he didn't attack the fact that John Bradley 'modified' his software for the forensic examination of her computer more. (Remember Baez, that could backfire since she told her friend Amy she was going to live in her mom and dad's house!) Household weapons searches could mean she was searching for other reasons.
I haven't watched all the vids from Wednesday. I became too tired since I'd been watching the Young trial. And today I have yet to finish watching because of Young and the air unit here died after a long fight from heat and age. So tonight isn't a good time to have CA on the brain. That would make me even more ill mannered, I think.
Day 25 day 15 of evidence Thursday June 9, 2011.
ReplyDeleteAfter Bradley's testimony was over with all Baez jibber jaz about internet searches, Lee Anthony was called. He was questioned about what Casey had told him about her search for Caylee and some questions about Zenaida. A stipulation was read about a 911 call made in Dec 11 2008 by utilities customer service about a skull being found off Surburban and Chickasaw near a school by Roy Kronk. Then they called the officer who responded to the call, Deputy Turso at 9:38 AM. He said he met Kronk asked him what he called about and Kronk advised him he'd found a skull so Turso asked him to show him. Kronk lead the way and took him into the woods. He said they passed it a about 5 feet but Kronk looked around and over his shoulder then he saw it. The deputy said he stood over the skull, looked at it then left the woods. He called his Sgt. and roped off the area with crime scene tape.
Baez attempted to discredit the officer by asking about Turso having advising Kronk not to say anything about calling 3 times before. But Judge shut him down. He asked how far they went into the woods. And Turso said about 20 feet. Baez asked about a fallen tree, a white bag but Turso said no he didn't see them, he focused on the skull and the garbage bag next to it. He asked if he directed Kronk to write a statement. He said yes. Baez asked if he gave Kronk any other directives (made statements to him) except what he has told. Turso said no.
Deputy Turso was excused. And the judge advised the pool cameraman to blur or pixelate any picture of the skull. No one else could use a cell or electronic device to capture a picture of the evidence. ( He doesn't have to worry about me looking anyway, my page will be dropped to my toolbar. )
And next the state began the big guns of their case!
(Photos of scene where Caylee was discovered with her witness describing what she is seeing in the pictures in all their stomach churning details were shown to jurors via Ms Welch.)
Miss Welch is with Orange CO SO and is a crime scene investigator with forensics. She arrived at 11:25 - it was raining and several LE persons were present. She said it was dense vegatation at the scene. She said crime scene tape was up and no one was within the wooded area but they were lined along the street.
She photographed the scene as she found it. A crime scene pic was shown of wooded area showing the vegetation along the roadside. She went through all the pics showing the roadside path leading up to the woods and the path to the remains.
I couldn't keep vid up (which isn't unusual for me. Cameras tend to pan over to CA and I don't want my thoughts on her, but on what I am hearing via the witnesses) Ms Welch showed jurors the skull with duct tape over it.
Talk about being thorough she even asked Ms Welch about raindrops in a photo!
Baez questioned the crime scene and hinted it was staged. He questioned the duck tape and that it was raised off the skull. Among other questionable things (in defense mind) surrounding the duct tape, skull etc. and the collection of it. ( as did Mason when he questioned Hanson) Not using protective footwear was questioned. He intimated one person was stepping on evidence. Give it a go, Baez and Mason, it's what defense lawyers do because it's their job. Defend defend defend.
Between Steven Hanson the chief investigator, and Dr. Utz the chief deputy ME, the jurors and the hordes of internet watchers heard descriptive details of the scene where Caylee's skeletal remains were found and the condition of the skeleton and other items located as they appeared at scene. It was not a pretty picture the witnesses were and did paint until.....
Casey 'allegedly' or actually became ill.
Yep I was very upset with me yesterday. I had written up Thursday's thought comment but couldn't find it when I signed in to post.) Needless to say, I signed out, called myself a dummy for not saving after writing it and then said, 'Forget it! I will not rewrite that!'
ReplyDeleteEven then I knew I would.
So this morning I opened my notes and wrote the header. Then I couldn't remember Hanson's name. UGH!
Off I internet trotted to 'Trials and Tribulations' to discover what the good man's name was. I knew if I could trust any site to accurately report it then it'd be that site. After checking the post there on Thursday's trial information for his name, I remembered! I had written up my comment for the Young trial before doing the one on Anthony.
Yep, I found my Young folder and there it was! Saved! My Anthony comment was hanging around with Jason Young comments! (What a pair)
I smiled and patted myself on the back for at least saving it and not forgetting. Self is now forgiven! No more upset- At least not with my internet bloopers but this is the third attempt to send this particular comment. And I had trouble earlier sending the write up. I keep getting error when I send. Yeah, I checked, no little viruses hanging out with all the crime scene stuff. *shrug* Just not my week!
But, still not upset. The Internet is what it is.
Days 26&27 days 16&17 of evidence Friday & Sat June 10/11, 2011
ReplyDeleteI had a hard time just listening to Friday and Saturday's testimony. The idea of that precious baby's body being thrown away like she was makes my stomach churn and tie in a know. All the pictures in my head of the scene and how nature's natural growth grew around and through her skelatal remains, including the hair mat, is more than I can write about. How bones were found scattered around the area
and why they were in the condition they were found is a horrific mental image. I have walked through thick vine and brush laden woods many times and can vividly see in my mind the areas where the skeletal remains were discovered.
So my only thoughts on these two days is.. Oh My God How Could She? (which stress on each word)
I think Baez condescending comment, in connection to the bag being like a roach motel, is exactly right but to to depict how cold and uncaring his client was... only he should have said with this murder it was- a maggot motel. That comment didn't endure him to me for sure! What it did to me was show how callous his client is; she did not consider what would happen to her baby's body in the trunk of that car or when it was thrown away and left for nature's elements to take care of it.
I don't mind listening to forensics but when it comes to this trial it just totally turns me off. I think it's my predisposed opinion that Casey killed her baby. And more so, after seeing vids and pictures of Caylee laughing and playing, all the plant vegatation growing through her bones was hard to hear. I wasn't bothered by the growth through the canvas bag and trash bag (only the knowing she was inside that trash bag). And the image of those insects being on her made me feel physically ill. Including how they were found still digesting decomp fluid on the evidence collected. I don't think I'll ever be able to look at a soiled napkin again in the same way I did before hearing that!
May God be with these jurors!
That covers my thoughts on those 2 days. I doubt if Monday's testimony will be any easier to hear or write my thoughts on. That the entomological evidence fits with Caylee decomposing inside the trunk of her car makes me wonder just how Casey could bare to even drive the car. Surely she knew what happens to a body after death if it isn't properly handled and buried. She had to know flies would get to her baby girl and flies lay eggs that make maggots and more flies. And that cycle continues.
Days 28,29 &30 days 18-19-20 of evidence Mon.,Tues.,Wed. June 13,14, & 15 2011
ReplyDeleteOkay, this week has been very interesting. I can say Cindy's testimony of the bag missing in her garage is powerful. I so felt for her as she testified and had to once again see pictures of Caylee. This whole case is horribly tragic.
I have so much forensic stuff floating in my brain that to pin down one thing is hard.
The state continually showed the jurors that Caylee was in that trunk when her body went into decomposition. Which common sense says to me that she was in that car for more than one night. If she died on June 16 then she was still there well into June 17 and most likely longer. I still become ill just thinking about Caylee going into full decomp and her body breaking down.
Defense objected to a power point state wanted to show jurors during Mr. Shaw's testimony. I thoroughly enjoyed the oral arguments on this study! In the end the power point photographs were not allowed. Sad because it was a great power point, the pics clarified the study greatly.
I held my breath when an older case popped up in an argument for mistrial yesterday! Serrano! OMG 4 people was shot and killed folks! And that was another one I watched daily along with other people as we discussed what was heard.
I agree with Judge Perry's decision. No Mistrial! The state really has put forth a competent case with substanial evidence pointing to guilt.
Now, we shall see if defense can put reasonable doubt in the minds of jurors. But, I rather doubt they can mine. Thinking logically- she was in that car, she was last seen with Caylee, and Caylee disappeared under her care, she made statements that Caylee was at nannys but no nanny can be found.
At this point in trail I say guilt proven. I am an armchair juror and can say that.
I haven't listened but to a couple hours of defense yet. And that was from Thursday's tapes.
ReplyDeleteAnd I haven't had a chance to listen to Levi Page's BTR radio shows the last couple days. But I will! I have seen headlines in emails and it sounds like a three-ring circus! Hopefully, over weekend I can hear them all.
Days 31,32 & 33 Thursday, Friday and Saturday
ReplyDeleteI have to say the last 3 days of trial caused me to raise my eyebrows a few times. But I wasn't upset or frustrated and don't get upset with defense strategies often. Many times I have really wished they'd shut up and sit down though. (In more trials than just this trial)
Casey's is doing what all defense do, trying to put reasonable doubt in the mind of the jurors. I know that doubt is not possible in the eyes of the majority of the public, minds were made up as to guilt long before this trial began. And doubt hasn't planted it's seed in my mind yet. I think state showed guilt in their CIC.. However, I can say I think the prosecutors are being far too expressive during the presentation of defense evidence. Not just with Ashton's objections ( he is far to verbal and excitable in front of jury to me ) but the prosecutors facial and hand actions while testimony is being heard too. To me, if I were sitting on the jury and not real knowledgeable as these jurors said they were, that would say to me they are worried or hiding something or losing confidence in their own case.
The prosecutors need to show they aren't worried with the evidence of these witnesses, then cover their concerns in cross examination of them. I really don't think defense is thinking they will get a NG verdict. I think they are trying to keep their client from getting the DP verdict. After all, it doesn't take a genius to see Caylee was in the trunk of that car and her body did begin the decomposing in the trunk. Casey was the only one who drove that car during the weeks before it was towed to the tow yard. Casey was the last person known to be with Caylee.
I think defense had good points the last 3 days of court but also made ridiculous points that aren't solid and didn't add anything to the case, that I could ascertain anyway. I don't think for a minute that the crime scene was staged. Not at this point in the trial anyway. (I can't remember how long Kronk (?) was in the woods, if we ever heard, when he allegedly went to relieve himself before coming out and advising he'd seen a skull. I have to assume it's him they are hinting at as to being the one who staged the duct tape. No, I do not believe that - I can see it possible that the duct tape wasn't orginally over her nose but it was there over her mouth when she was placed in the woods months before her skeketal remains were found. ) I have not been swayed one way or another at this juncture.
In conclusion, I don't see anything wrong with what defense witnesses have testified to. All I heard appears normal defense strategy (even the staging theory) and isn't in anyway grandizing nor does it appear juvenile or ill prepared to me. I guess one can say at times they appear a bit overwhemed with what to ask whom.
What upsets me more is how the spectators outside the courtroom act. That courtroom is not full, plenty of chairs remain empty daily so what's the fighting about. Get an internet life and watch it - it's a great birds-eye- view and you can fast forward through sidebars or rewind if you watch after the vids go up in sites. I have laughed with the lawyers and judge in this case so far, and I have shook my head at some of the things I've heard on both sides.
I do look forward to Dr. William Rodriguez on Monday! His testimony (what little there was of it) Sat made me go wow, what is this about?! Now I want to know if Judge Perry really will hold Baez in contempt.
I was so agravated after Monday the 20th that I haven't watched the videos or listened to any radio shows on what is happening in this trial.
ReplyDeleteI decided after the Young trial verdict (and we could have one by Friday) I would check it all out. I doubt if I listen to every video of this week, but Levi's show will fill me in and I can go to Trial and Tribulations and read.
I am going to listen to CAs for sure if I can!
And listen to the verdict live too.
Saturday I thought I'd watch the day proceedings. I found it somewhat comical to just watch spectators look around and wonder if the lawyers and judge would ever retake their perspective seats. When they, lawyers and judge, fianlly did enter the courtroom, the folks curiosity was heightened as they were told no witnesses would be heard due to a mattter unrelated to the previous argument of the morning. Everyone was promptly sent about their own buisness.
ReplyDeleteIn this case, I don't think anything would surprise me. It's anyone's guess what happened to create the reason for court dismissal for the day. Just another stumble in the annals of criminal trials?
I wonder, could the fact that she sits there, laughs and chatters away acting like she's the host of a huge party be the reason her competence was a concern? Nah. She's been that way since the trial began.
ReplyDeleteTigressPen
I tire of having to press post comment 3 times before it brings up the word verification! Then having to type verification in and press again.
ReplyDeleteOf interest to me yesterday was Roy Kronk and Jesse Grund. Roy stood his own against Mason. He didn't allow him to trip him up on dates and what was done and said with each one. The thing is, Mason didn't show that Kronk new George or Casey or show he had taken the remains and put them in that crime scene. At least not that I ascertained.
ReplyDeleteJesse said Casey had told him Lee had attempted to molest her. But, point for defense is that he also said he had felt there was something odd about Lee when he was around both him and Casey and Caylee. And Casey told him she didn't want Lee to be alone with Caylee. When he inquired about it she told him about the attempted molestation.
But, that is Lee and Lee isn't the one who allegedly found Caylee drowned, it is George they are accusing. (Maybe it's a like father like son for defense) But they really need to shake up the evidence where George is concerned with all this abuse he was to have done.
I am not saying she wasn't abused because we will never actually know the truth with that. But I don't feel it's been proven she was in any way. One can surmise about it and that's it.
George did testify about his allegedly affair with Kyrstal Hollaway aka: River Cruz. He denied it. And told defense that was funny.
Cindy was questioned about her hiring PIs and sending them to the Suburban Drive area where Caylee's remains were eventually discovered and she denied specifically sending them there. However, Lee was called and he said his mom did send them to search for Caylee to that area. Intersting!
What this jury has to decide is whether they believe all or part or none of the Anthony family testimony.
I know I know that Jesse's testimony was a proffer. I added it because it's something we, those watching, heard in court. Please no reminders of that fact. It's the Judge's decision whether or not that testimony will be heard by jury.
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I've been so upset with Pros Ashton the last week of CA trail that I simply couldn't find words to write my feelings down with what took place in the courtroom. Then his laughing episode during Baez CA really caused me to lose what respect I'd had left for him. And he was laughing, he wasn't just hiding a smile as he told Judge Perry. Between the two laywers in that antic, I say Baez was the bigger man. He asked for no actions to be taken against Ashton. And the kindness wasn't returned, just the excuse.
ReplyDeleteI just pray jurors weren't so turned off by Ashton's lack of professionalism, it effects the way they view the facts of the case he presented.
I will say I really believe without a single doubt Casey is responsible for Caylee's death. But I don't think state proved premeditation. I do hope they find her guilty just not of the charge that carries DP. And if they do, during decision time of the sentencing, they give her LWOP.
I do believe Casey is mentally off. She isn't crazy in the sense of being legally insane. I feel due to all I have seen and heard that she is simply cold and ruthless when it comes to getting what 'she' wants.
God be with these jurors as they decide her fate and Justice for Caylee.
The trial is over, the verdict has been rendered and Casey was found not guilty of all charges except the lying to law enforcement.
ReplyDeleteI accept the juror's verdict. I am saddened by it but I thank them for their service and courage for rendering the verdict they felt was right.
I don't believe justice was served but that is on Orange Co., Fl. and not this jury. Sadly, this case will fall into the dead files.
May God watch over this jury as they go back to their lives.
TigressPen